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A Trial is Really All About Storytelling-My Talk with Scott Turow

March 7, 2018 by Mark Rubinstein Leave a Comment

Scott Turow, the bestselling author of Presumed Innocent and other novels, graduated with high honors from Amherst College, receiving a fellowship to the Stanford University Creative Writing Center which he attended from 1970 to 1972. He then taught creative writing at Stanford. He entered Harvard Law School, graduating in 1978. For eight years, he was an Assistant United States Attorney in Chicago, serving as lead prosecutor in several high-visibility federal trials investigating corruption in the Illinois judiciary.

Today, he is a partner in an international law firm.

  Testimony features former prosecutor Bill ten Boom, who at the age of fifty, walks out on everything he thought was important to him: his law career, his wife, Kindle County, and even his country. When he’s tapped by the International Criminal Court—an organization charged with prosecuting crimes against humanity—he feels drawn to what will become the most elusive case of his career. Bill must sort through various suspects in prosecuting war crimes during the Bosnian War. And very little is as it first seems.

Testimony is a bit of a departure for you since it leaves Kindle County and deals with a European case of mass murder rather than a ‘smaller’ crime. How did the idea for the novel come to you?

It came slowly. It began when I went to the Hague, the diplomatic capital of the Netherlands and the international justice capital dealing with war crimes. I found myself talking with a group of eight men and women who said, ‘You’ve got to write a book about this place.’ They found the cases fascinating. There’s diplomatic infighting within the courtroom and the international setting is quite unusual. These elements sounded intriguing and I kept the idea in mind.

It found myself thinking seriously about it, because this was a venue for a novel that would give me a chance to explore something that’s always been of interest to me—namely, the Roma people. I’ve always been immensely curious about them, so I combined the law with my interest and imagination.

Though ‘Testimony’ deals with elements of international politics, it’s basically a crime novel and legal thriller. What about the courtroom makes it such a great venue for novels?

Courtrooms are inherently theatrical. Drama and conflict take place with two sides fiercely disagreeing with each other. By its very nature, something very important is at stake in a trial: in a civil case, it’s money; in a criminal matter, it’s almost always someone’s liberty. In a jury trial, you add another important element: the intricacies and arcana of the law must be made comprehensible to a popular audience. All these factors make the courtroom a wonderful setting either for novels or film. It’s all right there.

The law is replete with stories, isn’t it?

Absolutely, but the narrative element of the law was not as consciously apparent to me when I was in law school. I’d give Gerry Spence, the renowned trial lawyer who never lost a case, credit for demonstrating the crucial importance of the narrative element in presenting a case to a jury.

Whether he represented the defense or the prosecution, he was a genius at figuring out the storyline of every trial. He turned every case into a compelling story. The story is what a trial is really all about. If you don’t have a story to tell in the courtroom, you’ll be out of luck.

To some extent, is “Testimony” also a novel about your protagonist’s Bill ten Boom’s midlife crisis?

Yes, I don’t know how to hide from that question, Mark. [Laughter]. Bill has decided at the age of fifty that he’s not comfortable with his life. He throws over everything: he moves out of his home, divorces his wife, leaves his law firm, and then leaves the U.S. At fifty years of age, he’s decided to change everything.

It’s a bit about the road not travelled.

Absolutely. He’s not hostile to anyone, but he simply doesn’t feel good about where his life has taken him and decides to change nearly every aspect of it.

“Testimony” is an important and timely book because, among many other things, it explores the savagery of people who turn on their friends and neighbors. We see this now in Syria, Myanmar, and other places. Will you talk about that?

The International Criminal Court was started by member countries of the United Nations because of the sad recognition that war crimes and atrocities are never going to end. We can hope for a day when that deplorable behavior stops, but unfortunately, the historical track record suggests that civilization will chronically break down somewhere. It seems to happen again and again. The crime detailed in Testimony is emblematic of these crimes. The reality is that today’s technology has dramatically enhanced the killing power of maniacs all over the world.

You once said, ‘I’m a big believer in the fact that all authors really write only one book.’ What did you mean?

This comment is sometimes attributed to Hemingway or to Graham Greene. I admire both of them enormously. It turns out that most writers have a universal obsession they’re working out through their novels. In my case, I think it’s about the use and abuse of power and the notion of justice found in the law. I don’t use it as an excuse for repeating myself in my books. For twenty years, I avoided writing again about Rusty Sabich because I didn’t want to write the same book again. But thematically, there’s no doubt the same leitmotif runs through all my books.

We all have a ‘home’ for a reason. Most people enjoy having familiar signposts in their lives—places and things they can call their own and with which they can measure their own lives. That’s true imaginatively as well; and that’s why every author’s book tends to resemble the books they’ve already written.

You’re still a practicing attorney. How do you find the time to work in the law and write full-length novels?

Since 1991, I’ve been a part-time lawyer.  Initially, I was still trying lots of cases, but over the years, my caseload has diminished, and now my principle work is pro bono.

I’m on a quest to enhance the lives of and employment opportunities for people who’ve been released from prison and have been law-abiding for a long time.

What’s a typical day like for you?

Usually, by about ten o’clock in the morning, I’m in front of a computer, writing. I’ll sit for three to five hours a day and write. I don’t know of any author who writes for sixty minutes of each hour. I never have. I’m terribly distractible. My good friend, Richard Russo, says, ‘Every author experiences the temptation of finding his or her head inside the refrigerator and wondering what am I doing here? I’m not really hungry.’ [Laughter]. The reason is, of course, it’s the farthest point in the house from where the computer is. I use email to distract myself.

If I have to deal with something at the law firm, I do it. I’m perfectly capable of picking up the phone, talking at length to a client, then putting down the phone and going back to finish the sentence I was in the middle of writing. In the afternoon, I turn my attention to the more mundane things in life at the office.

Some people would say you invented the legal thriller.

Some people are kind enough to say that, but it’s probably an exaggeration if you think about The Merchant of Venice and the trial of Socrates. In terms of the contemporary approach of having a lawyer as a flawed protagonist, Presumed Innocent was the first novel to go down that pathway. I often think of the monk, Dom Perignon, who ‘invented’ champagne. He had no idea what he was doing when he drank this bottle of accidentally fermented wine. By legend, he fell down the stairs. [Laughter]. I sort of fell down the stairs.

But in a good way.

Yes, absolutely [More laughter].

If you could meet any two fictional characters in real life, who would they be?

I would love to meet Anna Karenina. She’s an amazingly brave and compelling woman. Among men, I’d like to meet George Smiley, though he’s pretty circumspect and I’m not sure I’d get much out of him. It might be really interesting to talk to Moses Herzog, Saul Bellow’s character.

What do you enjoy doing in your spare time?

My number one pursuit, aside from spending time with my wife, is spending time with our grandchildren. I have four grandchildren who all live elsewhere, so we spend a lot of time travelling. Everyone says the same thing about being a grandparent—it’s the one thing in life that lives up to its advanced billing. It’s very fulfilling.

I also play golf when I can.

Will you complete this sentence: Writing novels has taught me________________?

It’s taught me everything. It’s taught me about psychological process. I’ve learned that you can’t ever really escape from yourself, which goes back to the notion of a writer really writing only one book. But, no matter how stuck or frustrated a writer may be, inevitably, the obsession will take the writer to where he or she was meant to go. So, writing novels has taught me—or rather, has made me aware—of my own psychological processes.

What’s coming next from Scott Turow?

I’m writing a novel called The Last Trial. It’s about the final courtroom episode in the life of Sandy Stern, who’s made appearances in every novel I’ve written.

Congratulations on penning ‘Testimony,’ a riveting novel which, as the ‘New York Times’ said, is ‘a thriller, an exposition of international law and an exploration of an intensely serious and nasty episode in recent history.’ It held me in suspense right from the beginning.

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Filed Under: About Books, Interviews Tagged With: Best Sellers, fiction, legal thrillers, literature, trials, war crimes

‘Say Nothing,’ A Conversation with Brad Parks

March 7, 2017 by Mark Rubinstein Leave a Comment

Brad Parks, a former newspaper reporter, is the only author to have won the Shamus, Nero, and Lefty Awards, three of crime fiction’s most prestigious prizes. Say Nothing is his 7th novel.

Say Nothing features Scott Sampson, a federal judge who’s held in great esteem. He has a lovely wife and two great kids. One morning, Scott and his wife, Alison, discover that their six-year-old twins have been kidnapped. Scott receives a call warning him to decide exactly as he’s told in a drug case he’s about to rule on. If he doesn’t follow these instructions, his children, Sam and Emma will suffer the consequences. He is told not to call the police, or anyone else. He’s told the Say Nothing.

But the call is only the beginning of a terrible ordeal. The first case is only a test run. It becomes clear, the kidnappers want to influence the outcome of the most high-profile trial of Judge Scott Sampson’s career. The ensuing events are harrowing.

When we last talked, you told me the newsroom has given you enough material for twenty novels. How did the idea for Say Nothing come to you?

I owe my friend Steve Hamilton a debt of gratitude. He gave me some advice years ago. He said, ‘You have to write the book that scares you.’ Ever since then I’ve ruminated about that. One day while I was jogging, I asked myself, What scares me? I’m the father of two elementary school-age kids. Nothing scares me more than the thought of something happening to them—like a kidnapping. I asked myself, ‘Who would want to kidnap my kids?’ From a storytelling standpoint, a ransom demand would be boring. I began considering what kind of character might have something to offer a kidnapper that could not be gotten any other way. And then it came to me: a federal judge might be a good target because he could not be bribed. He’s a moral paragon and the only way to influence him would be to have control of his children. He would then be forced to do the kidnappers’ bidding.

In Say Nothing, Scott Sampson is faced with ethical dilemmas of momentous proportions. Talk to us about the role of conflicting ethical decisions in your thrillers.

Conflict is paramount in many novels, especially in thrillers. However, in Say Nothing, there’s really no decision for Scott Sampson to make. Nothing matters to him but his children. His future, his financial situation, his reputation and his job are all secondary to the wellbeing of his kids. He really has no choice and it’s interesting to see how the decision he must make impacts him in the larger sense. He makes the decision he must, and the question becomes, what will it cost him? As the novel continues, it costs him more and more. Yet, he’s still willing to put everything on the line. He began the book with an ideal life: he has a wonderful job, a lovely wife and healthy children. He has everything a person could want. And then, slowly but surely, every one of those things is taken away.

Say Nothing has been described as a ‘Domestic thriller.’ Define that for our readers.

Different people might have slightly different definitions of a domestic thriller. To me, it’s a thriller in which the protagonist is someone you could meet at the grocery store. It doesn’t involve a superhero with Special Forces training. Rather, it concerns an Everyman or Everywoman. That’s always appealed to me because that kind of character is easy to relate to.

I’ve read a few of your novels. Among other things, they all involve the importance of family. Will you talk about that in relation to the novel?

As a writer, I need an emotional entrée to a book. If I care deeply about the characters and what’s happening to them, I’ll be able to make the reader care, as well. The notion of family resonates with me and with many other people. I could not have written this book when I was single and not yet a parent. Being a husband and parent gave me the insight to be able to write this novel. I’m always writing from a place of personal knowledge. When you get rid of all the trappings of your life, what really matters above all else is family.

Many thrillers involve either a missing person or a kidnapping. These issues seem to hold a special attraction for so many readers. Will you talk about that?

It goes to the heart of the definition of a thriller. Of course, a mystery is about solving a crime, while a thriller is about preventing one. The threat of something awful happening—like someone going missing or being kidnapped—is something we writers use in our writing. The threat must be real to the reader.

For instance, I’m afraid of spiders. I was once sitting in my office and a huge spider appeared on the wall. It was nearly as large as my hand. I tried to kill it with a rolled-up newspaper. But this creature was so huge, it laughed off my feeble attempt and disappeared. So, I was left with this massive spider lurking somewhere in my office. And then, I suddenly felt something tickle my leg. I jumped and screamed. I think thrillers must have something like that spider at their core. So, I’m always looking for that spider.

You mentioned writing from some well of personal knowledge. You’re neither an attorney nor a physician. Yet, Say Nothing involves easily understandable and vivid descriptions of the federal court system and certain aspects of medicine. Tell us a bit about your research for this novel.

As a newspaper reporter, I was no stranger to courtrooms. The law has always fascinated me. For this book, I shadowed a federal judge for a while and learned a great deal about the federal system and the law. I could never have written about Scott Sampson without that access.

The dialogue in Say Nothing is very realistic and highly believable. Tell us about your process for writing dialogue.

It helps that I was a newspaper reporter. I spent years listening to people talk. I learned to listen carefully and to distill the essence of what people were saying. I always looked for quotable moments. When writing, I read my dialogue out loud. I ask myself, is this how someone would talk? It it doesn’t sound realistic to me, I re-do it.

What has surprised you about the writing life?

What’s surprised is that I’ve learned that some of my greatest enjoyment comes from being read by other people. I love getting reader emails such as, you wrote this character…do you know my Aunt Betty? That kind of feedback tells me the reader has internalized my story and fleshed out the character even beyond my own imagination. That shared experience is wonderful and I enjoy that kind of magic.

You’re having a dinner party and can invite any five people, living or dead, real or fictional, from any walk of life. Who would they be?

I’d invite Harper Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Mark Twain, and we might as well have Jesus at dinner. He might have some answers to questions we all have. [Laughter] Then, to balance it out, I’d invite Mohammed.

What would you all be talking about.

I think we’d find universal themes to talk about. We’d realize issues that drove people in Jesus’s time were the same things Mark Twain wrote about and Thomas Jefferson wrestled with when he wrote the Bill of Rights. And those same things still drive us today. So I think the conversation would be about timeless issues of the human condition.

What’s coming next from Brad Parks?

Another standalone for which I don’t yet have a title. It concerns family again. [Laughter] It’s about a woman whose child is taken from her by Social Services. Someone is framing her as a criminal in order to take away her child.

Congratulations on writing Say Nothing, a propulsive, harrowing, and deeply moving novel that kept me turning pages because I had to find out what would happen to this extraordinary family.

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Filed Under: About Books, crime, Huffington Post Column, Interviews Tagged With: dialogue, domestic thrillers, kidnapping, legal thrillers, mysteries

‘Violent Crimes,’ A Conversation with Phillip Margolin

February 10, 2016 by Mark Rubinstein Leave a Comment

2016-02-09-1455022427-6466258-PhillipMargoliscrAnthonyGeorgis-thumbPhillip Margolin, a former criminal defense attorney who defended thirty murder cases, has written many New York Times bestsellers. He is well-known for his Amanda Jaffe and Brad Miller series, and for his many standalone novels.

Violent Crimes is the next novel in the Amanda Jaffe series. Amanda is involved in a complex case involving environmentalists, Big Oil, financial fraud, and murder. Not only must she determine who murdered two attorneys while defending the men accused of the crimes; but also faces the most difficult professional decision of her life.

Read more on the Huffington Post >>

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Filed Under: About Books, courtroom drama, Huffington Post Column Tagged With: courtroom thrillers, ethics in the courtroom, legal thrillers, perjury, Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, procrastination, search warrants

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